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Temporary => Knytt Stories Level Releases => Topic started by: Talps on January 19, 2013, 13:59:29

Title: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon (V2 released)
Post by: Talps on January 19, 2013, 13:59:29
I have gone against all I held dear and made an environmental level!

Download me!
No! No! Download me! I have a minor bugfix and am so much better than that rubbish old version!

No! Download ME! I have lots of edits and, frankly, I ROCK! Those old versions are LAME! (http://knyttlevels.com/levels/Talps%20-%20I%20Chased%20the%20Moon%20V2.knytt.bin)


EDIT: Version 2 now released with some funky changes!

Spoiler: Version 2 Changelog (click to show/hide)


This was created for a KS competition. It's my first environmental and also my first KS level made for a KS mod; you'll need to download Egomassive's KS+ mod (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=4175.0) to play this level.

'I Chased the Moon' is a short environmental level depicting a moonlit journey through some pretty places. Focussing on atmosphere and ambience, it features some original, non-awful poetry written by me, some original tilesets and some glorious COs made by the brilliant Raicuparta.

Play it and please comment with your opinions! Feedback is wonderful!

Being lazy and reposting screenshots from the preview. If you want to see more, click the download link!

(http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5631.0;attach=6943;image)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Widget on January 19, 2013, 14:01:27
It's ready! Downloading it now and I'll get to playing it right away. I've been really looking forward to this, even though it is an environmental ;)

As environmental levels go I was really quite impressed. The music is appropriate and adds to the feel of running through an illustrated poem, the tilesets are gorgeous and very well used and there's enough activity to keep it from being boring, as I can find some environmental levels. Oh, and the lighthouse CO is stunning.

I can't really judge this level as it deserves to be judged, not being much of an environmental fan, but it held my interest and the combination of the poem, mod, tilesets and COs was really nice to see. It's almost like a dream team showcase level
;)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: ixMarcel on January 19, 2013, 14:32:16
Downloading...

OK, it was fantastic environmental level. Beautiful poem and music. Great work!  :)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Purple Ink on January 19, 2013, 14:36:20
No words for this ... It's simply beautiful. I think I'm in love. <3

One very minor thing: The font was a little difficult to read for the credits.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Polana on January 19, 2013, 20:35:28
That was really beautiful. Finally some level of yours I was able to play from the beginning to end in one piece (I was never able to make last levels in IDotS, for example). I like music and water in the cleavages.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Fubaka on January 19, 2013, 22:05:27
This was quite a nice level.  My only complaint is that the way you randomly took the umbrella away and the way some passages closed off inexplicably after you went through them confused me quite a bit.

Regardless, I can see why you felt the need to use the KS+ mod for this.  The poem probably wouldn't hit as hard without those fading titles.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on January 19, 2013, 23:14:23
Glad you guys liked this! I'm not normally a fan of environmental levels either, so I wasn't sure if I'd be able to pull one off. Glad this is going down well.

The COs involving light, like the lighthouse and the windows, were made by the amazing Raicuparta.
Fubuka, passages closing off? I took the umbrella to stop people drifting off at the end. I didn't really want to but... I had to.
Purple, yeah, I don't know what possessed me to use that font. :/
Polana, thanks! But... I don't think 'cleavages' means what you think it means...
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Widget on January 19, 2013, 23:20:20
Polana, thanks! But... I don't think 'cleavages' means what you think it means...

Actually, cleavage primarily refers to the act of cleaving or the state of being cleft. The meaning you (and I) both immediately thought of is actually pretty modern, linguistically speaking, and may even be euphemistic slang.

That said, I think the word Polana meant was "clefts"; I don't think cleavage has a plural form.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Polana on January 19, 2013, 23:36:55
Oh, I am sorry. I've found it in dictionary and I liked how does it sound. I did not know that that word does have more meanings (it is an old dictionary, but useful for school purposes, because it contains many long words, that sounds...well).
I definitely meant some crack in the rock filled by water.
I'm sorry and hoping that I did not more rough language accidentally again.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Widget on January 20, 2013, 01:17:24
Don't worry about it; english must be a real nuisance to learn since it's packed to bursting with synonyms. Just about every word you could have used for that meaning is or has been used as a slang term for some part or other of human anatomy :P
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on January 20, 2013, 03:04:12
Don't worry about it; that's a pretty polite way of referring to that anatomical feature, as it happens. :P
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Fubaka on January 20, 2013, 06:22:55
Fubuka, passages closing off? I took the umbrella to stop people drifting off at the end. I didn't really want to but... I had to.

You spelt my name wrong, but oh well :P.  Allow me to point out a specific example then, cause I feel this was an intentional design decision on your part, and I just worded it in a way you didn't understand.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on January 20, 2013, 12:23:24
Ah right, that and the one-way floors later on. I see what you mean now. I guess a working knowledge of KS+ was something both my beta-testers had, so they were ok with that stuff.
Still, all life is a learning experience!
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Purple Ink on January 20, 2013, 18:39:14
I didn't even really think much of it when I came across these things. It could be because I have some experience with the mod. I checked to see if the ledge tiles were 2-way and then just went on when I discovered they weren't. I think people just aren't used to these subtle differences with levels made with the mod.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Fubaka on January 20, 2013, 19:05:01
Ah right, that and the one-way floors later on. I see what you mean now. I guess a working knowledge of KS+ was something both my beta-testers had, so they were ok with that stuff.
Still, all life is a learning experience!

You know, I figured that might have something to do with the mod.  I don't use KS+ very often, and just barely downloaded it again to play your level.  As such, I didn't bother getting the Level Editor + as well to have a look at those areas.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: egomassive on January 20, 2013, 22:03:52
@Fubaka: The new objects should appear in the normal level editor if you have KS+ installed.

I thought the transition from moving in front of the building to being able to climb it was well done. I can't think of a better way to execute such a maneuver. The one-way ledge used later is very smooth. I think the biggest problem with them is they're both so unexpected for players unaware of such features that it breaks the immersion. As the mods designer I fear that poor use of such objects will make levels very confusing, but I can't find fault in their usage here.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Headgrinder on January 20, 2013, 22:22:42
Exquisite.  Fantastic tilesets.  I didn't even notice that you used the rock texture on the tree silhouettes until I looked at it in the ks+ editor.  Interesting choice that, but it works.  Loved the lights, and your use of titles was fantastic.  Man I wish we had ks+ a long time ago.

Edit: My only thought on the one way cliffs and passage was that you leave the bottom square on the light house and far left square on the cliff two way, and make the rest one way.  That way you can still jump up and climb or jump down again, but the wall/floor still become solid.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on January 21, 2013, 00:34:22
I think if I'd done that with the lighthouse, people would have run back and forth without realising they could climb. Plus they could then climb up the inside of the blocks, which would be daft. Similar problem with the cliff. Either way, it's possible to jump down from either area and work up to it again, if you really want to.

This was only a little level and designed in such away that hint signs explaining some of the features would have broken the immersion. I'm so hooked on the level editor that I expect to use the mod for any other level I make - including sequels to 'Do Not Pick Up The Key' and 'I Dreamed of the Sky' if I ever feel the motivation to make such things ('Ok, Pick Up The Key' - if only I could get someone to draw some cartoony cutscenes for me I'd be at it already).
I've no idea if levels made with the mod can be played without it if they don't use any features from it - I'm sure Ego can field an answer to that, though. Either way, if using it for a different style of level, I'd endeavour to explain one-way ledges and any similar thing if they cropped up.

I watched the director's commentary for 'Portal' a long time ago and it gave me a lot of good ideas. Using visual clues to represent certain features as a way of teaching the player to look out for something, or building the graphics to guide the player the way they need to look or move... They're techniques I try to use in my design; thank you Valve!
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Raicuparta on January 21, 2013, 00:56:42
I watched the director's commentary for 'Portal' a long time ago and it gave me a lot of good ideas. Using visual clues to represent certain features as a way of teaching the player to look out for something, or building the graphics to guide the player the way they need to look or move... They're techniques I try to use in my design; thank you Valve!
I learned that from older games (although I agree that Valve does it very well), teaching you through gameplay instead of text is a great idea and makes the player feel great if they get it by themselves. But I have to admit it pretty much impossible to make it work for everyone.

I found your level very intuitive, but I can see how the switch and the part where you climb the lighthouse can catch some people off guard.

It was nice to see my nickname in such a nice font as well :P
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on January 21, 2013, 02:00:56
It was nice to see my nickname in such a nice font as well :P

Glad you could read it! :P2
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: pfrangip on January 21, 2013, 17:10:44
Great work, as always, Talps.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: willxinc on January 22, 2013, 16:58:12
Got bored and played through the level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd22tUd-J78

One note, the lighthouse climbing it was kinda annoying to figure out, didn't notice there were 1 way areas.
Otherwise, an amazing map. (More opinions in video but they're mostly just complementing the level design)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on January 22, 2013, 23:21:47
I was cringing every time you leapt off of the lighthouse, if that's any consolation.

Thanks for your comments. It's great to get feedback and really good to see a play-through. Kinda jealous of game companies who get to watch people play through their games as part of the development. :P
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Chrysophylax on January 23, 2013, 23:41:24
Every time I play one of your levels, I think "OK, this is amazing. This has to be the best Talps can do. There's just no way the next level could be better." Then I play the next level and find out I was wrong.


Suggestion: while "dreamed" is now considered valid English, "dreamt" used to be the correct form and sounds better, especially in a poem. Every time I saw "dreamed" I thought "dreamt", noticed that it said "dreamed" and lost my immersion.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on January 23, 2013, 23:52:05
Thanks for your reply! And your compliments!

I did consider the spelling of that word a lot when I was coming up with the title and the poem (a lotta thought went into the small details of that poem). I always read dreamt to be pronounced to rhyme with 'unkempt' and dreamed to rhyme with 'seemed'. I usually say 'dreamed' and I felt that it sounded better in the poetry. But that's just me. Sorry I can't please everybody.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: willxinc on January 24, 2013, 00:03:59
I was cringing every time you leapt off of the lighthouse, if that's any consolation.

Thanks for your comments. It's great to get feedback and really good to see a play-through. Kinda jealous of game companies who get to watch people play through their games as part of the development. :P

If you'd like, the next time you make a map I could do a beta play-through and post it. Also, nah it's fine, I should've thought of the 1 way wall shift. (After all I'm doing a similar thing in my KS+ map) X)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Widget on January 24, 2013, 01:02:16
Thanks for your reply! And your compliments!

I did consider the spelling of that word a lot when I was coming up with the title and the poem (a lotta thought went into the small details of that poem). I always read dreamt to be pronounced to rhyme with 'unkempt' and dreamed to rhyme with 'seemed'. I usually say 'dreamed' and I felt that it sounded better in the poetry. But that's just me. Sorry I can't please everybody.

I'd consider both spellings to be equally valid, so choosing one over the other isn't a big deal to me; in a piece of poetry, in particular, it's whichever version scans better  ;)

And since I'm already adding my two-penneth, I think the way you dealt with the upper level of the lighthouse was the best option by far. I find all the techniques that work in v1.2.1 far more jarringly incongruous anyway; even more so in a linear, story-driven level like this.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Headgrinder on January 25, 2013, 12:53:44
Yeah, I'll back up and say I though the light house trick was about the best it could have been.  I think we all are just going to have to get use to looking for 1 way walls.  Or... do you think we need to come up with a new visual standard?  Kind of like how black outlines clue into a solid?  White or grey line maybe?
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on January 25, 2013, 18:22:26
I wouldn't try and come up with a universal standard for all levels. I don't think that'd ever work. Better for people to try and define the workings of their own levels as it comes. Sometimes we'll do it well and sometimes not so well, but that's part of amateur design.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Headgrinder on January 26, 2013, 00:02:29
I think I was more looking for discussion and suggestions from the forum as a whole... though perhaps this isn't the right context for that. 
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: sergiocornaga on January 28, 2013, 15:58:33
Readers of this thread may like to know that I've put the tileset I did for this lovely level up for public use (http://nifflas.lpchip.nl/index.php?topic=5192.0).

P.S. I found a really, really small SGE at Map x1019y995, Pos x10y3, Layer 0.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: seattalite on May 01, 2014, 08:27:33
Beautiful. but I want more! lol. It really looks good though - with the music and the poem - the tone is exquisite. Make a whole game out of it!
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on May 01, 2014, 13:00:42
Thanks, it always feels a little tenuous trying to build up atmosphere like I did for this and it's great to hear you think it came together so well. I don't know if I could make another or a longer environmental but, well, maybe if an idea comes...

I do love a good challenge, though. :P It was fun to make this so serene but I think the danger helps you feel more - tension, frustration, triumph...
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: the Jack on July 29, 2014, 16:11:52
Wow. Wow, just... wow.

This is exactly what a Normal-difficulty Environmental level should be. As someone else pointed out, there's enough gameplay to keep it from getting boring; but nothing this LoCPer couldn't manage with a bit of trial and error.
Spoiler: Minor spoiler: (click to show/hide)

You did an absolutely amazing job of combining tilesets, backgrounds, sprites, decorations, COs; music and ambiance; fading titles & other KS+ features; and ohhh, that poem! -- to evoke a mood. I felt as enraptured by the night sky as the poet / Juni seemed to be. TBH, I was a little leery of trying this level, actually, since bad poetry is so much easier to write than good poetry, and so many aspiring poets haven't yet learned the difference. But like the keystone to an arch, it surmounted and held together all the other elements.

Things I particularly liked, in no particular order:
Spoiler: spoilered for length (click to show/hide)

If every KS level were half this good, it might be years before I played any other games again.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on July 31, 2014, 12:00:05
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 26, 2014, 15:00:46
Belated bug report: at x1007y997, you can just fall through the water into a void. Also, it just occurred to me you don't have an icon for this in your signature, should I make one?
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on August 26, 2014, 15:21:45
Dang and blast!

I guess I shouldn't be surprised as I was using KS+ for the first time, but still...


That is a good point. I think it came of knowing I would have to remake them all to match as I am such a Neanderthal that I can't even make bubble-text like yours. That and terminal procrastination brought on by the unsustainability of this method assuming I keep producing levels. But if you'd like to make one, I would be grateful. :) (If you need a word at the top, 'Environmental' would be appropriate ;))

Edit: Uploaded a version with bugfix and replaced the link in the opening post.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: sergiocornaga on August 26, 2014, 15:52:12
Good job! Though I see the tiny SGE I mentioned a year ago remains.

I'll make one in the next couple of days, hopefully I kept the original template somewhere...

I know a lot about terminal procrastination! I still aim to finish that one tileset for you some day.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Comhon on February 02, 2015, 15:38:39
This level is just beautiful. I really like it - and the poem is wonderful.
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on February 02, 2015, 21:16:04
Thanks! <3
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon
Post by: Talps on October 21, 2015, 17:42:21
What ho!

While procrastinating over 'Dragon Myth' I spent some time making a few changes to this, to iron out some of the creases and generally improve both prettiness and playability.

Download 'I Chased the Moon V2' from Knyttlevels.com! (http://knyttlevels.com/levels/Talps%20-%20I%20Chased%20the%20Moon%20V2.knytt.bin)

Spoiler: Changelog (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon (V2 released)
Post by: Ultigonio on October 21, 2015, 18:42:36
I suppose now's as good a time (only over two years late, after all) as any other to say that I really enjoy this level!  The little details like having the lights turn on/off and having a jump-through platform in the mountain climbing bit really brought that extra ounce of life to the whole thing.  The only complaint I really have is that the choice of music gets too loud, and it makes it a little tougher to drink in the visual environment, but it works, otherwise.  Good work, as always!
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon (V2 released)
Post by: Mitorun on October 23, 2015, 19:56:51
Thank you for the music Isaac Shepard, it's perfect!
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon (V2 released)
Post by: Purple Ink on October 30, 2015, 00:23:09
Awesome. Of course I had to play again. I actually forgot about this level when I made the statement that PoaDF was my second favourite Talps level. This one may hold that title. It's hard to pick one!
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon (V2 released)
Post by: bulbapuck on November 04, 2015, 11:25:20
To me, this is the best just pure enviromental level I've ever played. I had completely missed it until now and I was just in a trance throughout the entire thing. Very beautiful!  :)
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon (V2 released)
Post by: Talps on November 04, 2015, 23:45:08
Hey all, thanks for your replies and feedback; I'm really glad you enjoyed it, and glad I could brighten up your day, Bulba.

You guys rock!
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon (V2 released)
Post by: David C on November 05, 2015, 02:22:20
i played it a while back, so i couldn't name any differences, but this definitely somehow felt nicer than how i remember it
Title: Re: [Environmental/Normal/Small - KS+] I Chased the Moon (V2 released)
Post by: Tszemix on November 05, 2015, 16:58:01
Your levels are all awesome! I hope you are still making new levels :D :D :D