Nifflas' Support Forum

Temporary => Knytt Stories Level Releases => Topic started by: KG on August 18, 2013, 09:00:43

Title: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on August 18, 2013, 09:00:43
Okay. Here is the culmination of a little more than a year's worth of effort. It's what I mentioned elsewhere under a Hebrew name.
The final screen count is 4744, making up 310 levels in this... level.
It took me about 2 and a half hours to finish playing it, it took a couple friends some indeterminate amount of days. My sister is clocked at over 10 hours right now.

This is primarily a puzzle game. If you've played the trash can BLOCKS game in Too Much Soda, it's kind of like that but way better in every way. If you haven't, play this anyway.
There is a story that goes along with it, very illegible, but a friend likes to call them "cutescenes" and I decided that's indeed what they are.
Anyway.

 :juni:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5y3d1b7t246d331/KG_-_Define.knytt.bin

Unfortunately, it seems that having such a large amount of things in it gives it a loading time. So don't freak out if Knytt Stories doesn't immediately respond when you start it, it's just loading. Yeah if anyone was wondering what happens when you have a big level, apparently that.

Oh, and there are four endings. One "bad end", one "good end", and two literal side-by-side other endings. If you get all of those, you probably found everything there is in the game, which is generally straightforward. Uh, in a sense anyway.

Edit: Oh 2, an important thing I forgot. Don't try to play this all in one sitting. Not only is it a long game, it also acts weird if you play it for too long. Specifically, the custom objects freak out and stop working.
If that does happen, or if you suddenly drop down in infinite nothingness (which I think is a byproduct of the aforementioned issue somehow?), turn off the game and then turn it on again. Yeah like what the guy says in the IT Crowd.

Edit 2:
I decided to make some very minor adjustments, and now here is a version that is slightly less difficult in like... six or seven spots, but more notably it's easier to see which blocks are deadly because their letters are tinted red.
:juni:
https://www.mediafire.com/file/egd0wlsc8bzhdjo/KG_-_Define_-_Easy_R.knytt.bin/file
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Well on August 18, 2013, 09:06:01
The amount of effort put into this level is absurd.
Only a fool or a belligerent child would ignore a KG level normally, but passing up this level here is beyond excuse. Please don't do that to yourself, you deserve better.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Pumpkinbot on August 18, 2013, 12:58:04
Damn it, KG! It's 4 AM here and you couldn't have waited to be awesome just another few hours?! D:
Now I've gotta play this awesome level and further deprive myself of sleep. UGH!

...But really, I'm definitely downloading this. Installing it, and I'll play it tomorrow. :3

EDIT: Sleep is for the weak! And this is -amazing-! You've really put a ton of effort into this! I do have to wait for the game to load for about...eh, a minute before it kicks in, but that's a minor distraction. Haven't gotten too far.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on August 18, 2013, 19:57:42
Damn it, KG! It's 4 AM here and you couldn't have waited to be awesome just another few hours?! D:
I am awesome ALL the time, like totally.
Haha yeah right. But anyway Pumpkinbot you're always nice to see.

Like I mentioned earlier, the story is actually illegible. The text is just me writing in very cramped cursive with a mouse in MS Paint. That said, there is a story, but I feel like it's easier to interpret what's going on yourself.

Oh, but otherwise, the text that isn't that is the same as the cipher I used in Too Much Soda's BLOCKS game, just backwards. It's mostly not important, just telling you what level or area you're on.
Except during the tutorial area, where it's explaining such fascinating things as the S key is used to jump or ctrl R is used to restart or "YOU CAN DO IT IF YOU BELIEVE IN YOURSELF" (screenshot 2).
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Polana on August 18, 2013, 20:44:54
Still not finished but must write something...
Best puzzle level I've played. Really original. And I like your gradients.  :hiddenstar:
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Ghost on August 19, 2013, 01:15:28
I support Barast's political agenda
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Pumpkinbot on August 19, 2013, 03:54:55
words
So no surprise deep meaning halfway through? :P

But yeah, this level is -fantastic-. Turning a platforming game into a block puzzle game. Wat.
It's like if I hacked Mario World and turned it into a SHMUP.

What I really do like about this level is that it's easy to learn what to do in the game by just playing it. No need for someone to pop up and start shouting "MEGAMAN! MEGAMAN! YOU GOTTA PRESS DOWN ON THAT BLOCK!!" Instead, you're shown a bunch of light colored blocks for the most part, then suddenly WOAH, why is that one blue? Lemme investigate!

I don't know why I didn't give you a star last night, but you definitely deserve one. :3

EDIT: Oh, and if I could give two stars in one day, I'd give you another for the Totaka's Song at the beginning alone~
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on August 19, 2013, 04:51:37
Still not finished but must write something...
Best puzzle level I've played. Really original. And I like your gradients.  :hiddenstar:
Thanks Polana.

words
So no surprise deep meaning halfway through? :P
I didn't say that! Uh, but, if there is meaning, it doesn't go too deep I think, and it isn't clear until final parallel ending 2. Probably.

What I really do like about this level is that it's easy to learn what to do in the game by just playing it. No need for someone to pop up and start shouting "MEGAMAN! MEGAMAN! YOU GOTTA PRESS DOWN ON THAT BLOCK!!" Instead, you're shown a bunch of light colored blocks for the most part, then suddenly WOAH, why is that one blue? Lemme investigate!
Thank you.
Though, haha, you say that now, but soon you'll probably be wanting a strategy guide or something like. To that I say there is potentially a helpful folder in Define's world folder. But more likely it'll just confuse people so maybe not.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Headgrinder on August 19, 2013, 16:12:32
I hate to keep begging for mirror links, but I still can't get mediafire to work.  Would someone mind doing a mirror, pwwweeeeese?
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on August 19, 2013, 17:32:14
I hate to keep begging for mirror links, but I still can't get mediafire to work.  Would someone mind doing a mirror, pwwweeeeese?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/53up2552ikv4y9q/KG%20-%20Define.knytt.bin
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Headgrinder on August 19, 2013, 17:46:38
Thank you thank you.  I've been working on the mediafire thing and nothing I try helps.  >:(
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on August 21, 2013, 00:26:04
I forgot to mention another thing that sometimes happens when you play for too long. Edited the initial post.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: drwright on August 21, 2013, 20:08:04
my guy drops into a box and then just sits there.... nothing responds. What am I doing wrong? Knytt Stories 1.2ego. Thanks!
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: egomassive on August 21, 2013, 23:16:14
my guy drops into a box and then just sits there.... nothing responds. What am I doing wrong? Knytt Stories 1.2ego. Thanks!
You're playing with an old version of my mod. Get the latest version (http://egomassive.com/ks) or play with the official version 1.2.1. I'm sure this was made for the official version so that's probably a good bet. I've been playing on KS+ without problems, but I haven't gotten very far.

Edit: By the way, KG, this is probably the best KS puzzle level ever.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: drwright on August 21, 2013, 23:43:10
got it, thanks!
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Fubaka on August 22, 2013, 23:40:22
This is easily the longest KS level I have ever played.

KG had me test it, but I couldn't find the time to get through even half of this puzzle-y nightmare!  I STILL haven't managed to finish it yet!

Very original though, and I very much like its collection of classical 8-bit tunes.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Tablecat on August 23, 2013, 02:23:32
I will play this level by KG.
My opinion? Good? Maybe.
Post here the review.
I'll play it for you.
Your previous level was crazy.



I have seen some of this level.
The puzzles are making me revel.
I am stuck in the room.
With the red blocks of boom.
This part makes me dishevel.


I take it all back, though this level is odd.
I did not see it, for I am a sod.
I had high jump all the time.
I will finish this level just fine.
To the creator, I give a happy nod.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: pfrangip on August 23, 2013, 23:18:33
KG, the amount of work gone into this level is ridiculous. I am guessing you did all of the block movement with shifts?? Combined with the cryptology in your other level (which I still haven't deciphered, and a translation would be great), I've come to the conclusion that you are none other than John Nash.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on August 24, 2013, 06:27:17
Edit: By the way, KG, this is probably the best KS puzzle level ever.

Thank you. And I agree, though I have to admit I have played like two puzzle levels I haven't made and they were both too short for my liking, so it's not like it's much of a contest.

This is easily the longest KS level I have ever played.

KG had me test it, but I couldn't find the time to get through even half of this puzzle-y nightmare!  I STILL haven't managed to finish it yet!

Very original though, and I very much like its collection of classical 8-bit tunes.
Thank you. Haha, how far have you gotten man?

I take it all back, though this level is odd.
I did not see it, for I am a sod.
I had high jump all the time.
I will finish this level just fine.
To the creator, I give a happy nod.
Uh. Thanks Tablecat. Haha you're a fun one I bet.

KG, the amount of work gone into this level is ridiculous. I am guessing you did all of the block movement with shifts?? Combined with the cryptology in your other level (which I still haven't deciphered, and a translation would be great), I've come to the conclusion that you are none other than John Nash.
Also uh. Thanks pfrangip. I have to admit I'm not John Nash, and didn't even know who that was until I asked Well.
But yes, all the block movement was done with shifts. When it comes down to it, shifts are the only thing you can use to simulate background movement to begin with, so I'm not sure what you might have thought it'd otherwise have been.
If you're talking about Teenhmifnoeafgil as the "other level", then I think the translation was put up somewhere in that thread.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: plural on August 25, 2013, 15:01:39
It's really interesting, and a couple of the blocks that I've encountered so far, especially the green one that maintains your direction upon entering it, are ingenious. I think I'm up to the dragon but I don't remember that well right now. It's really long. I can imagine the shifting and room duplication necessary for some of these puzzles and the amount of work is staggering. Both from a perspective of design and a diligence, in regard to the limitations of Knytt Stories, this is a masterpiece.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on August 27, 2013, 02:33:44
It's really interesting, and a couple of the blocks that I've encountered so far, especially the green one that maintains your direction upon entering it, are ingenious. I think I'm up to the dragon but I don't remember that well right now. It's really long. I can imagine the shifting and room duplication necessary for some of these puzzles and the amount of work is staggering. Both from a perspective of design and a diligence, in regard to the limitations of Knytt Stories, this is a masterpiece.
Thank you, but uh, I'm honestly a little confused about what you're talking about here. The block "that maintains your direction upon entering it" makes it seem like you're indicating what I think is the vaguely purplish/dull magenta vav, but you said green so maybe not?
Also, there is no lone dragon. There are two dragons, who appear together, but maybe in the case of one of them it's not quite as obvious what it is.
At any rate though, yes, there were a substantial amount of shifts and duplicated screens. Much of the bulk of the 4744 screens is the result of that.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: plural on August 27, 2013, 11:27:10
I may have (most likely) had the color wrong. I tried to find the block again but I just played it for about a half hour and I didn't encounter it but I'm sure you're correct, I just wanted to see/remember what it was correctly. Even looking at the tileset of blocks I know which one it is but I can't remember it correctly. But yeah, it makes a tunnel of itself depending on if you enter it vertically or horizontally. It's cool... that's all.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on August 30, 2013, 03:22:06
I may have (most likely) had the color wrong. I tried to find the block again but I just played it for about a half hour and I didn't encounter it but I'm sure you're correct, I just wanted to see/remember what it was correctly. Even looking at the tileset of blocks I know which one it is but I can't remember it correctly. But yeah, it makes a tunnel of itself depending on if you enter it vertically or horizontally. It's cool... that's all.
All right, yeah that's what it was. I actually liked that one too.
And I think it's cool that you liked an individual block enough to remember it (to some extent).
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: pfrangip on August 31, 2013, 18:43:18
I am still playing this... I don't know that I will ever complete it but it is fun. As others have mentioned, it is obvious that the amount of work that went into this level is nothing short of monumental.

I have a little bit of trouble grasping/remembering the rules of all of the blocks (green backward C's are deadly, but also make stuff disappear?) but I've managed to sort it out enough so that I'm just past the part where you can turn the level upside down and back. I also like the purple j's that keep your direction... I've no idea how you did half this stuff with an unmodded KS.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: egomassive on August 31, 2013, 22:26:05
Possible Bug Report: When Juni shifted into this room (see image) she found herself swimming above the spot where she is depicted in the image.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: pfrangip on September 02, 2013, 19:02:50
I personally did not get have that problem.

I am now just past the point where Juni has enlisted the friendship of the two weird dragon things.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Polana on September 02, 2013, 20:49:27
I have similar problem as Sergio Egomassive, but in different screen. I am not able to find it, because my KS gets horribly slow while playing this. I like the level, but I am afraid I will not be able to finish it because of this problem.  :sad:
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on September 02, 2013, 22:26:27
Possible Bug Report: When Juni shifted into this room (see image) she found herself swimming above the spot where she is depicted in the image.
Oh. Yeah sometimes strange things like that happen. If you restart or use ctrl R it should fix itself.
I have similar problem as Sergio, but in different screen. I am not able to find it, because my KS gets horribly slow while playing this. I like the level, but I am afraid I will not be able to finish it because of this problem.  :sad:
Oh. Wait, who's Sergio? I dunno what you're talking about here. But, yeah, it is pretty big and it would cause slowness issues on some computers.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: sergiocornaga on September 03, 2013, 00:51:16
Oh. Wait, who's Sergio?

Hello. I haven't posted in this thread yet as I'm still finishing the level, so this either a case of mistaken identity, or Polana telepathically inferring bugs I encounter before I've posted them here. Probably the latter.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Polana on September 03, 2013, 11:11:14
Oh sorry. I was reading another topic just before I posted here and doing some schoolwork so it got mixed in my head somehow.  :oops:
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on September 05, 2013, 17:25:21
Hello. I haven't posted in this thread yet as I'm still finishing the level, so this either a case of mistaken identity, or Polana telepathically inferring bugs I encounter before I've posted them here. Probably the latter.
Oh hello. I remember you. Yes. Yeees.
Oh sorry. I was reading another topic just before I posted here and doing some schoolwork so it got mixed in my head somehow.  :oops:
Not a big deal. But did you get over the problem, Polana? Or is it really impeding your ability to progress?
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Polana on September 06, 2013, 23:44:30
No. But I will be trying again and again because I want to solve all those puzzles.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: AA on September 10, 2013, 21:59:16
I'm stuck at
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Excellent level, by the way! Puzzles like this are hard to make with Knytt Stories. At first I was really confused by the huge variety of blocks and their properties. I still can't remember what some of them do (yes, I had a look at the 'instructions', but sometimes it's quicker with trial and error).
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on September 11, 2013, 01:45:56
I'm stuck at
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Excellent level, by the way! Puzzles like this are hard to make with Knytt Stories. At first I was really confused by the huge variety of blocks and their properties. I still can't remember what some of them do (yes, I had a look at the 'instructions', but sometimes it's quicker with trial and error).
Dang, man, you're getting close to the end! (Well. In one sense, anyway.)
But yeah that one is a bit of a doozy and maybe a tiny bit unforgivable.
The way to do it is to lure the block near the top and leave it there (this is done by jumping up next to it, then at the peak of the jump moving away--if done correctly, the block will lose "sight" of you and stay where it is), then you have to lure it downward by going around on the left side to the bottom and dash forward and back to get the block to move down but not quite down to your level.
From personal experience and from what I've seen of others who did it, it takes at least a few tries to get the timing right. Basically the important thing about the block is that it will only move when you are in any square (in the imaginary grid of Knytt Stories) to its side, otherwise it will stop moving.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

Anyway, thank you. This definitely was not easy to make, but someone had to do it!
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: AA on September 11, 2013, 10:06:18
Thank you. I'd tried that one or two times and failed, so I thought it was impossible.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on September 12, 2013, 17:26:44
Thank you. I'd tried that one or two times and failed, so I thought it was impossible.
Hey, that's what I'm here for. Uh, I guess. I don't actually know.
I presume it worked out then.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: AA on September 13, 2013, 21:39:37
^ Yeah, I got past that. Unfortunately now I've encountered a small glitch.

Spoiler: (click to show/hide)

I'll just edit my save file or use the cheat code and go on. If you think you can fix it easily, good; otherwise I don't think it should be a big deal.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on September 13, 2013, 23:07:30
I'll just edit my save file or use the cheat code and go on. If you think you can fix it easily, good; otherwise I don't think it should be a big deal.
Ahh yeah, I looked into it and I can see what probably happened. It looks like I was a little sloppy with a couple shifts there. Usually I'm not.
It is easy to fix, but I guess I'll wait and see if you or anyone else encounters any other issues before re-uploading Define.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: AA on September 14, 2013, 19:44:58
Finally got to see all 4 endings. Really nice game overall! There are way too many different blocks - some of them quite similar - for me to remember what they all do, but the levels are short enough that you can just try things out. Towards the end, though, I found I had little trouble remembering most of the block effects.

Great collection of music, either nostalgic or outright good chiptune tracks. I recognized a lot of tunes, but not all of them: if you have a list of the titles I'd love to see it, since, unless I'm mistaken, there's no such information inside the OGG files.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on September 15, 2013, 03:05:49
Finally got to see all 4 endings. Really nice game overall! There are way too many different blocks - some of them quite similar - for me to remember what they all do, but the levels are short enough that you can just try things out. Towards the end, though, I found I had little trouble remembering most of the block effects.

Great collection of music, either nostalgic or outright good chiptune tracks. I recognized a lot of tunes, but not all of them: if you have a list of the titles I'd love to see it, since, unless I'm mistaken, there's no such information inside the OGG files.

A true gamer eh. Thanks though.
I don't have such a list, but if there are individual tracks you want to know I can tell you.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: AA on September 15, 2013, 09:54:34
These are the tracks I'm sure I've heard before, but can't remember where they're from.

Ambiance 7, 10, 15, 20, 32, 46, 51, 85

Thank you :)
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on September 15, 2013, 20:16:41
These are the tracks I'm sure I've heard before, but can't remember where they're from.

Ambiance 7, 10, 15, 20, 32, 46, 51, 85

Thank you :)
Sent a personal message.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: Marximillian on October 02, 2013, 20:05:59
That took.... a long time to beat.
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
Amazing and worth the effort! I'm just going to say the best KS.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: GrayFace on October 12, 2013, 19:13:16
I've converted custom objects into template objects for KS Ex: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/44735333/ks/KG%20-%20Define.knytt.bin
It would work as before in other versions of KS, but in KS Ex it wouldn't have the mentioned problems with disappearing objects.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: egomassive on October 14, 2013, 00:25:21
That is so good of you GrayFace! I haven't gotten very far because I get tired of waiting for it to load after every cutscene. Template objects don't have that issue* do they? ... Nevermind, loading takes just as long as before. If I remove the CO declarations form the World.ini will it still work fine in KS EX?

*To the casual gamer: The long loading times are a result of the COs being cached.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: GrayFace on October 14, 2013, 00:58:45
No, I meant the issue with resources leaking that leads to eventual bugs. I did the conversion to fix that one. [One interesting observation from trying to apply that conversion to Caged In: custom objects are significantly faster than normal/template objects]
Most of loading time is due to Map.bin loading I suppose. Instead of deleting entries from World.ini you can move all custom objects png's except 31Finale.png somewhere. That would speed things up a little bit, I think it reduces the time it takes to enter a cutscene noticeably.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: egomassive on October 14, 2013, 03:17:28
Yeah, I'm surprised. Now that I've messed with it I see the long load time has little to do with the COs. It's actually the World.ini. It's nearly a full megabyte and regardless of how many COs are in use, the engine will do 255 searches through it for CO entries at load time. There's nothing we can do about that. If I could still mod KS I might give designers the option to put CO entries in a separate ini file, then it wouldn't have to search through all the data at load time.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: GrayFace on October 14, 2013, 04:01:11
Uh, indeed. Ini++ loading the file takes all that time, not COs. I'm sure a proper hashed ini implementation could handle it fine, but turning it into an extension to replace Ini++ would be a pain.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on October 17, 2013, 08:01:39
Uh, wow, haha, GrayFace and egomassive I have no idea what you guys are talking about. I did sort of glean that you, GrayFace, found out how to fix the weird custom object bugs in a Knytt Stories mod, and also that you two determined that the long cutscene loading time is just me making the thing too big.
Anyway, I think it's cool of you to look into it like that.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: egomassive on October 18, 2013, 01:22:35
Some people enjoy playing levels. Some people enjoy making them. And, some people like to tear them apart and see what makes them tick. We're just having our own kind of fun with Define.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: GrayFace on November 07, 2013, 03:02:22
Wow, I've finished it!
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
One thing that it lacks compared to Too Much Soda is clarity. Now I understand what all blocks do, but it's still impossible to remember them all to recall on sight. Along the way they weren't all clear and too often I had to act randomly, rather then solving things by thinking. At times it seemed inconsistent too.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on November 08, 2013, 19:52:21
Wow, I've finished it!
Spoiler: (click to show/hide)
One thing that it lacks compared to Too Much Soda is clarity. Now I understand what all blocks do, but it's still impossible to remember them all to recall on sight. Along the way they weren't all clear and too often I had to act randomly, rather then solving things by thinking. At times it seemed inconsistent too.
Oh, yes. No. Most of them are based loosely on people I know, and that happened to coincide with a few here.
It is a lot more confusing than Too Much Soda's minigame, and it does get pretty tough, but I think I was pretty good at consistency! I had a strict rules document open whenever I worked on it.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: GrayFace on November 08, 2013, 21:06:07
It is a lot more confusing than Too Much Soda's minigame, and it does get pretty tough, but I think I was pretty good at consistency! I had a strict rules document open whenever I worked on it.
Yes, just these blocks that use properties of the underlying block might have caused that feeling if I didn't understand them at the time. I've made a note (a screenshot actually) of one place where black blocks usually killed player, but didn't do so in some case. I'll recheck it.
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on December 26, 2013, 20:38:43
For an after-Christmas gift or sommat I don't know.
Spoiler: Cheat (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: helvetzia on March 23, 2019, 22:51:22
I'm sorry to dredge this topic up after so long, and I have nothing significant to add.  I'm trying to play this again after some years and I'm predictably in awe of the programming effort and complexity, puzzle designs and sheer length of this level. I also just enjoy playing it (for stretches of time).
Perhaps there's people in the current community who haven't played this level yet...
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: KG on July 02, 2019, 21:10:43
I'm sorry to dredge this topic up after so long, and I have nothing significant to add.  I'm trying to play this again after some years and I'm predictably in awe of the programming effort and complexity, puzzle designs and sheer length of this level. I also just enjoy playing it (for stretches of time).
Perhaps there's people in the current community who haven't played this level yet...

Thank you helvetzia. I saw this a few days ago and it inspired me to replay Define and it occurred to me that... it's kinda hard? Haha.
I decided to make some very minor adjustments, and now here is a version that is slightly less difficult in like... six or seven spots, but more notably it's easier to see which blocks are deadly because their letters are tinted red.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/egd0wlsc8bzhdjo/KG_-_Define_-_Easy_R.knytt.bin/file
Title: Re: [Intermediate][Extreme][Puzzle\Miscellaneous\Maze] Define
Post by: helvetzia on July 05, 2019, 00:19:04
I'm happy that seeing my comment reminded you to take a look at that wonderful game again.
It's funny that you were surprised at the difficulty of Define and even worked to make a version that's easier to deal with. Meanwhile, you have other levels with insanely hard screens and boss battles. I assume that those speed and precision challenges are more aligned with the purpose of those levels and can be really satisfying for players that are able to beat them.
Judging by your description, the changes you made will make it more enjoyable for many players. Especially those new to KS or puzzle platformers in general.
I did finally play though Define completely. I got one excellent ending.  It was so satisfying all the way through. I would play in chunks of time and take breaks. It was exhausting to play. Partly because it is so long. Partly because the mental challenge of remembering block definitions and visualizing the progression of different permutations of Juni's chain of actions taxes my little brain in ways it's not generally accustomed to. That's also why I loved it, of course. And I always looked forward to getting back into it after my gray matter had cooled down somewhat. I appreciated that the difficulty of the vast majority of the challenges in Define had very little to do with lightning quick reflexes or super-precise movements.

Recently, KS streamers DonDoli and UnPigeonVoyageur have done playthroughs of Define. Here are the first parts of each:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iuOfMRnX5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ8ycGfltHU