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nifflas.ni2.se  |  Nifflas' Support Forum  |  Level Editing Support  |  Knytt Stories Level Editing Support  |  Topic: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself « previous next »
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Author Topic: About Using Stuff You Didn't Make Yourself  (Read 44734 times)
Miss Paula


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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 01:25:45 »

Notice: This is the first post in a sticky topic, and will repeat on every page.
With a lot of help from Bloxmaster, this topic was summarised and ported over from the old forum.

The admins' standpoint on this is the following:
Using copyrighted material, including music and graphics or even characters, is not legal, as per United States laws. (These laws MUST be followed by the forum, as the server is in the USA), so in order to protect everyone, such things will be removed.

Quote from: LPChip
I certainly will delete levels where I find out that they use illegal material. Not to bully you, but to protect this forum and you. If indeed a company goes in pursuit to track you down, itís my obligation to help them in any way, which results in giving out your IP address. With that, they can contact your ISP, and through them, they'll get your name and address (or that of your parents or whoever pays the internet access at that moment). Eventually they'll reach you and you'll have to pay a big fine for infringement. I just don't want it to go that far, and I therefore will prevent any effort where possible.
When it comes to our notice that copyrighted material has been used, the user will be asked if they have permission.
Quote from: LPChip
If the person wants to lie to us, then it means they know that they are breaking copyright concerns, and it will be entirely up to them to cope with the problems. I don't want to be a bully, but I want to protect people from getting harmed. If they don't want the protection (by lying) then they're on their own.


However, the generally valuable idea that the creators should be able to have control over what they create has severe flaws, and it seems the 'fine line' and 'how punishable infringement is' seem to vary. The following quotes basically are included for their food-for-thought-value. Nifflas' personal point of view on this matter:
Quote from: Nifflas
Yeah, but it still takes a human with neither a heart nor brain to attempt to sue those children. In this case, I still give the industry the entire blame. Timberland steals music from Tempest to produce a song for Nelly Furtado without consequences, but a 12-year girl gets sued for file sharing. The record industry has too much money and power, and lawyers enough to attack anyone they want to, and defend themselves from almost anything.

But, on the other hand, LPChip has a point:
Quote
....it would be non-human to just abuse someone's music without having permission. How would you feel if you spend 2 months to work on something and you're proud of? Then you learn that someone used what you made in a crappy movie or level or whatever without even asking you? I certainly would be really pissed.

So, to sum this up:
Think honestly about these questions before using anything you didn't make yourself or already got the permission to use.
  • Can I get the required permission to use the material legally?
  • What's the risk of anyone taking legal actions?
  • Could I afford the consequences?
  • Would the author like this?
  • Is this really 'fair use'?
  • Is it right to use this material? (from a moral point of view, which is not always identical to the law:
    Quote from: Nifflas
    In my opinion it's a lot more wrong to use the material of small unknown artists than big successful ones.
If you're still not sure, feel free to ask. :)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 12:02:10 by Miss Paula » Logged

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AA
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2009, 11:32:45 »

I'm facing the same dilemma here anyway, I'm capturing this huge photo library that I will use for sceneries in a future game (it's around 1500 photos now), and at least half of the photos I'm capturing are objects created by other people, even including sculptures. If I had full respect for their rights to control their own creations, I wouldn't have been able to do this at all, and re-using and re-cycling can be part of a creative process too.

Even that may not be allowed in some countries. :O

There was some controversy about this a year ago in Italy: fortunately, it was clarified that 'cultural assets' are free to take pictures of, even for commercial purposes. However I read, in an article about this issue, that there are some restrictions on this in other countries.
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Lingon


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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2009, 21:18:28 »

I'm facing the same dilemma here anyway, I'm capturing this huge photo library that I will use for sceneries in a future game (it's around 1500 photos now), and at least half of the photos I'm capturing are objects created by other people, even including sculptures. If I had full respect for their rights to control their own creations, I wouldn't have been able to do this at all, and re-using and re-cycling can be part of a creative process too.

I have come to believe its not only the persons using others original material who are bound by responsibilities. The one who creates something artistically (art, music or anything else) and choses to showcase this in any public way (where internet is almost as public as it can get), may that be commercial or not, is in my opinion obliged to be aware of the fact that this will influence others. This is the whole point of being creative in the first place. Influencing someone to the point where the person even becomes inspired to create something new out of this should be seen as the most beautiful aspect of art. By denying others to let go of the inspiration, and to be creative, you deny for others what you command for yourself. For you can, in fact, never create something truly original. YOU where inspired by someone else when YOU created your creation in the first place.

Of course there is a difference between just being inspired by a creation and stealing it. But the artist must not forget the contract he/she signs while showing his/hers work to someone else. You WILL influence others. They might influence you in return.

I think this debate has forgot the responsibility the artist should take when showcasing his/her work. You are in fact responsible for inspiring a person. This should not be seen as a bad aspect, but somehow the commercial times we live in has put a bad stamp on the people who actually allow themselves to let go of the inspiration.

You can not create open art and deny responses - just as you cant argue without listening to the person you argue with.
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googoogjoob
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« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2009, 01:00:18 »

There's a difference between taking inspiration from a work of art and actually using part of that work of art in a new work of art. For most of history, it hasn't really been possible to have an exact copy of a work of art that could be used in another work of art; if, in the seventeenth century, a painter saw someone else's painting that had this really neat new way of painting a table or something in it that they really liked, the painter would have to go back home or wherever, and then try to imitate this new style from memory. Now, in the twenty-first century, it'd just be possible for the painter to actually take an identical copy of the painted table and incorporate the exact copy into their art. Same with music; this situation can happen with photos, or audio recordings, or a scan of something, etc. As the technology allowing such reproduction becomes more commonplace, it shows just how ill-equipped copyright law is for dealing with this sort of thing. (Previous to these technologies, the only form of art that could be exactly reproduced would be writing.)
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AmADizii


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« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2009, 09:15:24 »

lulz.
Dun use that type of stuff.
You're not allowed.
I have just ended the whole topic. I are great.
Admins should just let people put that stuff in their levels, and the forum would be fine. since you have a disclaimer and stuff, then the users of it would get something done to them
You did warn them.

I reopened and reshut this topic. I'm even betterererererer than before.
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BloxMaster
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« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 16:01:06 »

Um, what?
Anyway, my two cents on this is:

If people find that everyone is simply allowed to post any content they like, then the entire forum, including staff, Nifflas, and possibly people relating to this site will be all hurt by what others have done. That isn't really fair. So when rules are in place, such as this, to protect everyone on the forum, this site, and anyone relating to the site.
It's not cruel, it's very reasonable.
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Lingon


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« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2009, 01:06:25 »

There's a difference between taking inspiration from a work of art and actually using part of that work of art in a new work of art.
...
In my opinion there is not an artistical difference. For example; Using a song in a game. The song inspired your creation and is now a part of it. Just as the 17:th century painting is composed out of parts of the painters influence. The fact that the song itself is not the new work of art - but merely a part of it - makes all the difference.

I still get your point. The technical tools allowing one to copy material does make STEALING easier. But artistically using material which influenced you is still the same - in my opinion :)

And guys - I hope you understand that im not at all complaining about the rule, or being upset about it. I just felt like discussing this topic since it was on the wall. Its kind of interesting actually.
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Strange Darkness


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« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2009, 23:39:03 »

Well Lingon, heres more interesting (its on topic)

Since the downfall of Fallout Shelter i decided to make a new level called Scavenger.
Now this is my problem. I want to use music in the intro its called - Midnight in a Perfect world by DJ Shadow. Now if i want to use this music does that mean i have to contact DJ Shadow (very hard)? If i am giving him credit in the intro ,example ( Music - Midnight in a perfect world - DJ Shadow - Endtroducing (The album's name)) Am i allowed to do that?
Second, as you know the knytt stories editor only allows the use of two tilesets at a time.Well my first Tileset is the community one called Dumpyard. The second one however i want different things from different tilesets (example, Bokabeed's Mansion tileset, i only want the mansion) If i credit the maker of the tleset can i cut that out piece out and put it on a blank tileset? (So multiple things from a tileset in one, to make a super tileset - i will not call it my tileset because i did not make it) Also if i need to ask permission its a bit hard because didnt Bokabeed get banned from Niff Forum?

Now can SOMEONE answer that please  :S

Thanks  C)p
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googoogjoob
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« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2009, 00:07:40 »

Depends on how the music is licensed. If it's simply copyrighted, you should contact the artist. If it's under a Creative Commons license or something that allows free usage as long as the artist is credited, you can get away with just crediting the artist.

I'm not sure about the tileset thing. To quote the download agreement:
Quote from: Nifflas, on the old forum.
By downloading a tileset from this board, you agree that:

    * You can only use the tileset in your non-profit Knytt Stories level design.
    * You credit the author of each tileset that you use.
    * You don't modify the tileset without the author's permission.
    * You don't use graphics from the tileset in your own tilesets.

I'd think it would prohibit combining two tilesets, but I'm not sure. (Since it might not necessarily involve actually altering any of the graphics.) The two-tileset limit would mean that this sort of thing would happen reasonably often, I'd think.
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Strange Darkness


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« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2009, 01:09:18 »

Thanks googoogjoob for the help.

But say for the tileset, i havent modifyed the image and im not claiming the tileset for my own and im crediting the maker. Then can i?

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LPChip
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« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2009, 01:30:36 »

Copying tiles from a tileset to your own is the same as using someone's tileset. Eg. Credit is due where necessary. The Don't use graphics in your own tileset basically means that you cannot copy one or two tiles from a tileset and then claim it to be your tileset. It would be nice if you could ask the author if he's okay with you copying it unaltered to a collection tileset, but in Bokabeeds case, if its impossible, then so be it. Crediting is always possible, so I atleast expect you to credit Bokabeed.
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Strange Darkness


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« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2009, 02:40:17 »

Thank you LP Chip that answers everything! C)p
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NRA13


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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2009, 21:15:35 »

Still, you'd have to be a big jerk to fine anyone for using their song in a amateur, nonprofit level... <_<
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googoogjoob
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2009, 21:38:08 »

Still, you'd have to be a big jerk to fine anyone for using their song in a amateur, nonprofit level... <_<

The RIAA has gone after 12-year-olds, dead people, and people without computers. Being a jerk is not a problem for them.
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AClockworkLemon


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« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2009, 02:14:33 »

Whatr happens if you wanna use a tileset , but you can't contact the person, because he hasn't logged in for ages? (I'm trying to get permission from Drakkan to use "Civilisatin Zero" from frozen mountain 2, but he hasent been on for about a month)

Any ideas???????
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 02:17:22 by a clockwork lemon » Logged

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googoogjoob
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« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2009, 02:56:28 »

The "Civilization Zero" tileset wasn't made by Drakkan, it was made by vdweller. (Note the credit bar at the bottom of the tileset.) vdweller released this tileset in the Public Tilesets section of the old forum, meaning that anyone is free to use it so long as he's credited.
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